Nazi Marvel Family Analogue?

[redsycorax]

Well, here's one possibility for Earth-X- although I can't take credit for this, given that the DC tribute series Big Bang got there first. The Knights of Justice (their JSA equivalent) faced off against a trio of superpowered Nazis whose appearance looks suspiciously familiar (although a Nazi scientist and spy named Secret Servant was responsible for transforming a trio of elite Nazi agents into the "Super Stormtroopers"- Kaptain Thunder (their Captain Marvel analogue), Hitler Youth (a twisted Captain Marvel Junior analogue) and Valkyrie (Mary Death, in this context):
bigbangcomics.com/product/bb-summer-special/

Hmmm. It's always struck me that for an imposing transdimensional structure, the Rock of Eternity is somewhat sparsely populated. Its only inhabitants seem to be Shazam the Old Wizard and possibly Rabbit Shazam his lapin equivalent, unless Shazam manifests himiself as a rabbit to Hoppy the Marvel Bunny and is actually the same being- and although Ibis, Isis and Black Adam have also resided there, and the Seven Deadly Sins are imprisoned there, surely there must be others.  So what if there are areas of the Rock of Eternity that Shazam can't safely navigate and there's an appropriately evil wizard of comparable abilities to Shazam? Because I'm a classicist, it might be interesting to use Klingsor from Wagner's Ring Trilogy. Anyhow, the powers of the Asgardian gods are rallying during the rise of Nazi Germany, so they decide to assist the Nazi war effort through empowering three suitably vicious individuals- Morthilde (a Valkyrie), Captain Blitz (lightning) and Junger Adler (Young Eagle) when they speak the magic word Bestimmung (Destiny).  So, what do the rest of you think? A match for the Freedom Fighters? 

[DocQuantum]

For more, see 5earths.proboards.com/thread/279/destroying-demon-sturm-und-drang

[DocQuantum]

Of course, the existence of V2 and his Sturm und Drangers in the 1980s Earth-X doesn't preclude the possible existence of the Big Bang Comics inspired idea decades earlier, sometime back in the 1940s, 50s, or 60s.

[dans]

Did Mazahs hang out on the Rock of Eternity?

Say, you don't suppose that Lee's unfinished Ace of Space story might be tied in with Nasty Marvels somehow?

[DocQuantum]

On Earth-S, perhaps someone could do a story featuring the Captain Nazi Family! I think it could be done in the present, rather than a World War II setting.

[dans]

Don't we already have a Black Adam family on Earth S? In a 3 way war (Marvel Family, Adam Family, Nasty Marvel Family) I wonder which 2 sides would team up before turning on each other?

[DocQuantum]

Jan 26, 2022 20:34:04 GMT dans said:

Don't we already have a Black Adam family on Earth S? In a 3 way war (Marvel Family, Adam Family, Nasty Marvel Family) I wonder which 2 sides would team up before turning on each other?

Yeah, but I wouldn't treat a "Captain Nazi Family" the same way. I suspect it might go horribly awry for Captain Nazi.

And I'm pretty sure the Black Adam Family (who are each POCs) would see the racist Captain Nazi Family as enemies, and besides the Black Adam Family would be much more powerful.

[DocQuantum]

Speaking of the Black Adam Family, a few years after we did that story DC introduced a new version of the Mighty Isis who became Black Adam's lover, as well as a Black Adam version of Cap Marvel Jr., if I recall correctly.

In the story that explained where the original Mighty Isis has been for the last few years, Libby introduced an alternate timeline version of Isis that is based on the Adrianna Tomaz character since introduced by DC. I wonder if there's some way for that alternate timeline version of Adrianna to exist again in the main Earth-S timeline, to become Black Adam's lover? I wouldn't want to simply parrot everything DC does, but some of the ideas could be taken from that very interesting plot with Black Adam taking over the rulership of an Egyptian-like country in Africa, with the Black Adam Family taking part as well. It would be more interesting to portray them as that nation's heroes instead of mere dime-a-dozen villains.

And, unlike Captain Nazi who has always been evil, Black Adam has been a hero in the past and isn't beyond redemption.

[redsycorax]

I think I might prefer a fully fledged Nazi Marvel Family analogue- obviously not with Billy, Freddie and Mary, but with young or impressionably naive true believer children in the Third Reich and its poison. Incidentally, has anyone noticed that almost every time Valkyries show up in the DC multiverse, they're up to no good and side with the Axis or fascism? I can only think of a single exception and that was when the powerless Diana Prince sought Valkyrie aid for the embattled Amazons, who were under siege in their new transdimensional home:

Gudra (Axis Amerika, Earth-Two): dc.fandom.com/wiki/Gudra_(New_Earth)

DC Special 29: The Untold Origin of the Justice Society: September 1977: dc.fandom.com/wiki/DC_Special_Vol_1_29

"Siege of the Savage War Maidens" Wonder Woman 23 (May 1947): dc.fandom.com/wiki/Wonder_Woman_Vol_1_23

"The Last Battle" Wonder Woman 184 (October 1969) seems to be the sole exception to this, as the Valkyrie Brunhilde accepts Diana Prince's request for assistance for the Amazons and her benign Valkyries fight against Mars and his forces. Which seems to contradict the above, or is it the case that there may be factions within the Valkyries? Perhaps Brunhilde may well be honorable, but other Valkyrie factions may solely be interested in bloodlust and warfare: dc.fandom.com/wiki/Wonder_Woman_Vol_1_184

So, if a Valkyrie was utilised in any such context, it would have to be one of the less savoury ones like Gudra, the ones that fought the JSA or the ones that attacked Themiscyra.

[dans]

Why is Black Adam Family more powerful than Captain Nasty Family? There are some equally powerful Norse gods and elders to choose from as Shazam chose from, I think...

It is interesting that DC shows Valkyries as normally being on what we think of as 'the other side'. They were pretty neutral about human morality, I think - they selected the bravest warriors from both sides of a battle and took them to Valhalla when they died. At least, that's what I remember about them...

[DocQuantum]

The actual Captain Nazi gets his powers through other means, though, remember? He had been fed Miracle Food from birth by his father, which gave him great strength, and a unique flying gas later gave him the power to fly, but he's not invulnerable.

[DocQuantum]

As for the Valkyries, I am pretty sure Hitler somewhat controlled them by summoning them with the Spear of Destiny during World War II, as seen in DC Special #29, the origin of the JSA. Later, that Spear of Destiny and the Holy Grail in the East erected a mystical field that turned any magic-based (or magic-vulnerable) individual into a fervent Axis supporter if they were in areas conquered by the Axis, as seen in All-Star Squadron, especially the ones with the Marvel Family under Nazi control.

As later explained in Young All-Stars, it took a special spell created by the Spectre and Doctor Fate (both in their weak phases) to protect those two JSA members from falling under Nazi control when they brought food to resistance movements across Europe as seen in All-Star Comics #14. There were a couple of times when Wonder Woman went on a mission behind enemy lines, too, and she must have gotten similar temporary protection during those times.

[dans]

Sorry, Doc, we were looking at the Nazi Marvel Family analog from two different views. The Nasty Family I was thinking of would be totally separate from Captain Nazi getting their powers from some mystical source similar to the Marvel Family rather than as a derivative of Captain Nazi. I agree that a family with powers identical to Captain Nazi would be much weaker than the other two families.

[DocQuantum]

It's been a LONG time since I've read any Invaders comics over at Marvel, but I have a vague memory of Hitler similarly controlling the Mighty Thor during World War II, and sending him to fight the Allies. I think it had something to do with similar mystical powers wielded by the Nazis, and not because Thor was aligned with the Nazis himself.

I'm a big fan of Norse mythology, and I think seeing the Valkyries outside of the World War II setting would be interesting. They could be friends or foes based on the story.

EDIT: I found it. Turns out Hitler made Thor a weapon based on trickery, not on mystical power:

marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Invaders_Vol_1_32

"Thunder in the East!"

In England, Nazi saboteurs attempt to destroy three experimental Achilles super-tanks. The Invaders fight up against them, but two of the tanks are destroyed during the course of battle, one of which is destroyed by Prince Namor. After rounding up the saboteurs, the Invaders are greeted by General Moore who expresses the importance of safeguarding the last remaining Achilles tank. He instructs them to bring it to Russia so the Allies can begin mass production.

Meanwhile in Berlin, Adolf Hitler and his men use a device that can view other dimensions. They learn of Asgard and witness the God of Thunder in pitched battle. Hitler believes that if such a being were fighting on behalf of the Third Reich, then their victory against the Allies would be assured.

Using the device, they spirit Thor away from his native realm and bring him inside Hitler's bunker. Hitler provides Thor with a heavily biased explanation of the war and convinces him to fight on behalf of Germany.

Later, the Invaders arrive in Russia with the Achilles tank. They intercept a squadron of Nazi fighter planes attacking a passenger train. They defeat the pilots and safeguard the train which is carrying Josef Stalin. Suddenly, Thor arrives on the battlefield to fight the Invaders.

marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Invaders_Vol_1_33

"A Time of Titans!"

The Invaders are shocked at the sight of Thor, the God of Thunder, standing before them. None of them are quite sure what to make of him, except for that he is working alongside the Nazis and is here in Russia to kill Josef Stalin. Thor calls down a thunderstorm that douses the Human Torch's flame, but the rain only serves to rejuvenate the Sub-Mariner who begins grappling with the Thunder God. Russian soldiers open fire on Thor, but he shatters the barrels of their tanks with one swift stroke from his hammer Mjolnir. The Sub-Mariner grabs Josef Stalin and takes him aboard his Imperial flagship where he flies him to safety. Union Jack and Spitfire double-team Thor, but he easily shakes off their attack. Upon seeing that the Sub-Mariner has fled with his quarry, Thor flies off into the sky after them. Unable to locate them, Thor rests atop a mountain peak. He opens a window in space with Mjolnir and reports his failure to Adolph Hitler. Hitler is outraged and Thor does not take kindly to the man's tone.

In Berlin, Hitler meets with his scientist Doctor Olsen and his bandaged assistant Hans. Hitler dreams of calling down all the Gods of Asgard to lead his armies in a bid to conquer the world. Suddenly, Doctor Olsen suffers a massive heart attack and dies. Hans rushes to his side.

Meanwhile, the Invaders meet back up with the Sub-Mariner who has brought Stalin back to the Kremlin in Moscow. Thor arrives on the scene and resumes his quest to kill Stalin. The Invaders charge Thor en masse, but he brushes past them and fires a massive lightning bolt from Mjolnir, killing the Russian premier. As he stands above Stalin's body, Thor suddenly hears patches of conversation broadcast to him through his hammer. He hears the voice of Hitler, madly declaring his plans for world domination. Thor now realizes that he has made a critical error in judgment. The Invaders inspect Stalin's body and discover that it was actually Union Jack in disguise. The real Josef Stalin is safely tucked away elsewhere in the building. Thor feels guilty for the path he has taken and so he uses his hammer to retract the deadly lightning that nearly ended Union Jack's life. Union Jack rises from the floor and discovers that some lingering element of the mystic lightning has granted him the ability to generate electricity from his fingertips.

Back in Berlin, the bandaged Hans reveals to Hitler that he had altered his broadcasting equipment so that Thor would learn the truth about him. When Hitler orders him to use the machine to summon an army of trolls from Asgard, Hans overloads the device causing it to explode. Hitler survives the blast, but is partially buried beneath the debris. Hans reveals that he is actually Victor von Doom and thanks to Hitler he now knows what he can expect from the superhuman community once he makes his own bid for power. Doom leaves Hitler trapped beneath the wreckage.

[DocQuantum]

As for the "Nasty" Family as Dan puts it, I could see the Earth-X Adolf Hitler learning from the Earth-2 Nazis (via Baron Blitzkrieg, who lived on Earth-X for a month or two -- see the Freedom Fighters origin issues of All-Star Squadron) about the power of the Spear of Destiny being able to summon Valkyries, and inspiring the Nazis with their own scheme to create a Nazi Marvel Family with powers granted by the Norse gods by using some kind of mystical powers then wielded by the Nazis. Not the Spear of Destiny in this case, but something else. So by mid-1942 these new powerful Nazis would be around to battle the Freedom Fighters. I've always wanted to see the early wartime cases of the Freedom Fighters as a team, since we've never seen that before except for a few scenes here and there.