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Post by redsycorax on Aug 9, 2022 2:42:07 GMT
Okay, how does this sound for an Elseworlds idea? It's April-May 1945 and the European theatre of the Second World War is almost over with. The UBA has long since disintegrated, with Usil and Horned Owl now fighting for the resistance after discovering the truth about the Holocaust in 1944 and after the liberation of Italy. Gundra has left Earth-Two for Earth-X but pays one final visit to Earth-Two's Berlin to visit her former colleague Ubermensch. Addicted to his superserum and lost in a dream world of his own, Ubermensch imagines he can turn the tide as the curtain falls. He can't.
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Post by johnreiter902 on Aug 9, 2022 13:08:21 GMT
I love it! I'd also like to see a story where the UBA fractions when Horned Owl discovers about the Holocaust. Maybe even a story where the former UBA members now fighting the Nazis team up with the All-Star Squadron
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Post by redsycorax on Aug 10, 2022 1:57:08 GMT
The way I've written Horned Owl is that he's what might be considered an honorable conservative and not a hardcore anti-Semite. He honestly believed that the Nazi regime was one of order and stability compared to what he saw as the anarchy and turmoil during the Weimar Republic. He doesn't like communist-aligned Jews but he doesn't view Jewish war veterans in the same light. Which reminds me, what are you intending to do about the whole question of the Horned Owl/Bat relationship? Because I can see a case for his death precipitating the Owl's break with Nazism, perhaps if the Bat was the one who discovered the truth about the Holocaust and perished trying to get Jewish prisoners to safety. Which will require a great deal of forethought.
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Post by redsycorax on Sept 23, 2022 3:24:54 GMT
Right, the Ubermensch 1945 story's out of the way. And I've given the Horned Owl a happy ending too, married to one of his colleagues in the (UK 'Golden Age' superhero) Victory Legion, Midnight Angel. I had to dial down Ubermensch's role in the situation, but he's not Captain America, so this "uberserum" will turn out to have addictive consequences for him. Which unfortunately for Uber means that he's nothing more than a snarling, preverbal incoherent psychotic giant by the time combat is joined- a metaphor for Nazi Germany itself. Gudra has now concluded that, as with her period of captivity under Klingsor in the Grail Kingdom of Montsalvat in medieval Germany*, she was used by the Nazis and wants nothing more to do with them, returning to Valhalla for penance. So, therefore, that character can be used again. At some point, I'll flesh out Gudra's own backstory. I've left the cause of Fledermaus' death unclear at this point, but it has something to do with Horned Owl's discovery of the Holocaust and his decision that as a conscientious Catholic, he cannot serve the Nazi regime any longer.
Oh, and Horned Owl shares my love for John Milton's Paradise Lost, as you can see in that story! (NB: I chose Saint Michael as the subject of Horned Owl's prayer because the alternatives were either Joan of Arc or Saint George and because Georg is still a good German, he can't bring himself to petition the patron saints of France and England! Added to which, Michael is a senior archangel, so any such entreaties might well have extra devotional ommmph! Mind you, I suspect his fellow Catholic Midnight Angel, an English woman, probably sent up a few to Saint George precisely because of her national origins).
*Because Gudra was the character Gundry or Gundriggya in Wagner's Parsifal, until freed by Percival of the Knights of the Round Table after being held captive in Gundriggya/Gundry's body by Klingsor the sorceror.
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Post by johnreiter902 on Sept 24, 2022 1:42:15 GMT
I love the idea of making him a strong Catholic. It helps to make him more distinct from Batman
On the subject of the death of Fledermaus, here is a scenario I came up with, just to give you some ideas.
Fledermaus is investigating some mysterious disappearances, which puts him of the trail fo the Holocaust. The Gestapo learns of this, and decides to eliminate him. They contact him with information, for what he thinks is a police investigation, but it is a trap.
Horned Owl investigates his son's death, and learns about the Holocaust. He tracks down and kills the Gestapo agents who killed his son, and decides that the tyranny of Hitler has to end. He secretly contacts those members of the UBA that he feels can be trusted, and shares his discovery with them. But he miscalculates once, and is betrayed to Ubermensch. Battle breaks out between the fanatic Nazis on the UBA, and the members who have been turned by Horned Owl. They escape, however, by using some of the Horned Owl's contingency plans he created in-case any members turned traitor.
Horned Owl and his rebels then make a beeline to a secret metahuman prison which the Nazis constructed inside a mountain in Poland. It's here that all the superpowered enemies of the UBA have been imprisoned for the last 4 years. The rebel heroes free all the superpowered anti-Nazis they have locked up over the course of the war and join forces with them, becoming a metahuman resistance movement in Germany.
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Post by redsycorax on Sept 24, 2022 3:44:49 GMT
I like the scenario that you've depicted here. It certainly gives one pause for thought. The question is, when do I set the Holocaust disclosure story? I thought 1943 or 1944 might be good ideas. As for the loyalties of the UBA, I suspect Ubermensch would be fanatically supportive of the Reich, but that is probably due to his addiction to the Uberserum and the toll it's taking on his body and mind over the years. Gudra's affiliation at this point is a good question, though. She isn't a cookie cutter Nazi mirror image of Wonder Woman so there's no Nazi military officer akin to "Steve Trevor" in her life and as I sketched in the Ubermensch 1945 story, she is coming to the conclusion that she's been manipulated and used by the Third Reich, just as she was in Montsalvat centuries ago. She has a warrior's pride and she doesn't like that fact, so she won't side with Ubermensch. There's no love lost between the two of them. Usil has his own doubts about Italy's faltering fascist regime and will probably side with Horned Owl. Sea Wolf is contemptuous of his bickering colleagues and out for his own self-interest. The Japanese members have concluded that the UBA is too hamstrung by the conflicting loyalties and perspectives and are probably halfway out the metaphorical door already. '
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Post by redsycorax on Sept 27, 2022 2:27:40 GMT
Okay, an interesting library book caught my eye and the public holiday for memorial tributes to the late Queen Elizabeth II down here enabled me to do some reading on the subject of Italy, namely through a biography of Benito Mussolini's mistress, Clara Petracci. Which provided some insights for me and helped with the chronology. Usil is now scheduled to exit the UBA over the successful if short-term coup in Italy that overthrew Mussolini's first regime and demonstrated the weakness of Italy's fascist regime, which required it to be propped up by Nazi Germany, who declared an Italian Social Republic in 1943. If Usil had doubts about Il Duce, then that would mean that he'd walk out in 1943 when Mussolini's first regime ended and probably join one of the partisan groups, which means that the events that I'll describe in the forthcoming UBA story "Dinge Fallen Auseinander" (Things Fall Apart). That would mean that these events occur in or about 25 July 1943. The question then is, how does that match up with JSA/Wonder Woman/Superman/Batman continuity? *Wonder Woman: Sensation Comics 19 (July 1943) has the Amazon Princess fall into the clutches of Mavis, Paula Von Gunther's former servant and now leader of a Nazi spy ring. Mavis removes Diana's Amazon bracelets and she goes beserk: dc.fandom.com/wiki/Sensation_Comics_Vol_1_16*Batman and Robin were busy tackling Doctor Matt Thorne, a decidedly non-Hippocratic medical practitioner who assists Gotham criminals: Detective Comics 77 (July 1943): dc.fandom.com/wiki/Detective_Comics_Vol_1_77*Superman was engaged in assisting Cap. Zeb Storm and Lois Lane as well as detecting a covert Nazi undersea base, which he promptly destroyed: Action Comics 62 (July 1943): dc.fandom.com/wiki/Action_Comics_Vol_1_62*The Justice Society was busy battling Brain Wave, who had captured Hawkman, the Atom, Doctor Fate, Doctor Mid-Nite, Sandman, Johnny Thunder, the Spectre and Starman. Wonder Woman evaded capture as she was involved in locating the minutes of the earlier meeting, given the assumption that Brain Wave had died in an earlier encounter: All Star Comics 18 (June 1943): dc.fandom.com/wiki/All_Star_Comics_Vol_1_18Based on a contemporary survey of July 1943 stories in All-American Comics, More Fun Comics, Flash Comics and Adventure Comics, I've concluded that all of the above (as well as the Flash, Green Lantern, Johnny Quick, the Earth-Two Aquaman, Green Arrow and Speedy) could be on hand to deal with any fall out from the disintegration of the UBA and defection of Horned Owl and Usil to the resistance. Incidentally, one thing has occurred to me about the thaumaturgic barrier around Germany and Japan that would prevent an attack on the core Axis territories. Logically, given the absence of any UBA attacks on British soil, there must be an equivalent barrier that prevents the UBA from crossing the Channel and doing damage to Britain - I know, it's not a new idea and I've suggested the utility of Katherine Kurtz' Lammas Night for any such story set in 1940 beforehand. Would I ever love to get my hands on a copy of that book!
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