Legion of Doom vs. the League of Evil

[johnreiter902]

so, apparently the original concept behind the Legion of Doom was that it would be called the League of Evil, and it would be led by Dr. Sivana. A number of different villains were considered as members, and then dropped in favor of the lineup of 13 we are so familiar with.

This gave me a great idea for a story set in the Super Friends universe. What if Dr. Sivana formed the League of Evil, in order to show up Luthor's Legion of Doom and defeat the Superfriends? In the end, the Legion of Doom would end up battling the League of Evil, before they are both defeated by the Superfriends.

The members of the League of Evil would be:

Dr. Sivana

Mr. Atom

King Kull

Beautia

Joker

Penguin

Mr. Freeze

Catwoman

Poison Ivy

Heat Wave

Abra Kadabra

Weather Wizard

Mordru

I think Luthor would jokingly call this the "league of second-stringers," and accuse Dr. Sivana (rightly) of simply poaching all the reject the Legion of Doom turned down (though there are a number of big names in the group, like Joker, they just arn't team players). It's also a less broad group. Except for Mordru, Sivana basically just recruited from the rogues gallery of Captain Marvel, Batman, and Flash

[dans]

Beautia isn't evil in most iterations - was she evil in Super Friends? Wouldn't Sivana recruit Jr. and Georgia as members? Is 20th Century Mordru overpowered for that group? I think there would be a lot of infighting between Sivana, Mordru, and King Kull, at least, for leadership. It would be interesting to see a meeting and the group interactions. I see the possibility of several cliques too!

[jonclark]

Would having Sivana, Mr Atom, and King Kull lead to Fawcett heroes appearing (including but not limited to Captain Marvel)?

I can almost see a cool twist ending where the combined villains have defeated the Super Friends and turned on each other only for the Marvel Family to arrive, rescue the other heroes and justice triumphs. The final scene revealing Mr Mind was the one who tipped off the Marvels (for no other gain than just spiting Sivana)

[johnreiter902]

Nov 6, 2023 16:25:58 GMT dans said:

Beautia isn't evil in most iterations - was she evil in Super Friends? Wouldn't Sivana recruit Jr. and Georgia as members? Is 20th Century Mordru overpowered for that group? I think there would be a lot of infighting between Sivana, Mordru, and King Kull, at least, for leadership. It would be interesting to see a meeting and the group interactions. I see the possibility of several cliques too!

Beautia wasn't actually seen in the cartoons, but she was proposed as a member of the Legion of Doom before they went with a different line-up, so I suppose she would have been. They probably would base her off her original concept from 1940, where she was Sivana's ally and had superhuman beauty which could mesmerize men. I agree that Junior and Georgia would have made more sense, since they had already been introduced in the cartoons. However, they were never proposed, and it was probably because they are too similar to their pop. The writers wanted a greater variety of villains

Mordru is definitely the most powerful int he group. I wouldn't say he was overpowered though. After all, Dr. Fate and the Spectre both served on the JSA at the same time. I agree that Mordru would struggle with Sivana for leadership, and King Kull might as well. Somehow, despite the Legion of Doom have many world conquerors in their ranks though, Luthor is able to keep his team in line most of the time, so I assume Dr. Sivana will do alright their, at least for a while (though I think he lacks some of Luthor's planning ability)

Were you thinking of cliques based on common foes?

[dans]

"Were you thinking of cliques based on common foes?"

well, it works out that way, mostly. The 3 Flash foes have worked together before, and Joker and Penguin are probably familiar with each other. Mr. Freeze might actually join the Flash foes as there is some similarity in their powers, Catwoman, Poison Ivy, and Beautia because of their gender (oops, can I still say that?). That leaves Mr. Atom, with the 3 others fighting for the leadership.

I wonder if Sivana might have developed a loyalty virus of some kind and injected the others? And maybe tried to reprogram Mr. Atom to be personally loyal to him - but maybe Mr. Atom has some kind of regular system check for virus infections... and King Kull's super enhanced immune system due to being immortal fights it off, too...

[redsycorax]

Possibly, there might also be some delegation of authority. Sivana might recognise that there are specific areas of expertise and competence within his League of Evil and deputise particular members to head specific operational units. Although whether Mordru's ego would accept that is a moot point. However, Mordru might also form alliances and friendships with other team members that enable him to offset his own primary weakness- being buried alive nullifies his abilities.

[DocQuantum]

Even in the 1970s series I noticed that Beautia was accompanying her father occasionally during his capers, though it looks like she was there to scold him, not to help him. Still, she didn't turn him in. See SHAZAM! #27 for an example.

[redsycorax]

As for possible operational unit groupings between the villains within the League of Evil, how about...

Technological expertise: Sivana, Mr Atom, Mr Freeze, Heat Wave, Poison Ivy
Heroic adversaries: Sivana, King Kull, Mr Atom (Captain Marvel): Catwoman, Mister Freeze, Joker, Penguin and Poison Ivy (Batman): Heat Wave, Abrakadabra, Weather Wizard (E1 Flash): Mordru (LSH/Superman)
Supernatural capabilities: King Kull, Abrakadabra, Mordru
Gender: Beautia, Poison Ivy, Catwoman
Temporal transit: Sivana, Abrakadabra, King Kull, Mordru
Temperature Settings: Mr Freeze, Heat Wave

The Joker may constitute an achilles heel in this team. Although he probably has the greatest Batman combat expertise profile in this lineup, there's also the question of his psychosis and whether it could be subordinated within the framework of a team setting. As it is, Luthor barely seems to tolerate him whenever they're in the Legion of Doom or Injustice Gang/League together. Perhaps Sivana can provide pharmaceutical expertise to help manage the Joker that Luthor can't? Perhaps Sivana has stronger competencies in that area than Luthor? Is there any canonical evidence in Sivana's background that might be the case?

[redsycorax]

There might also be suggestions from some of these operational units about additional members for the League of Evil.
For example... Sivana might want assistance from Mr Mind or Black Adam...
Catwoman, Penguin, Poison Ivy and/or Mr Freeze might want the Riddler on hand to help balance out the Joker's wild card psychosis
Heatwave, Abrakadabra and Weather Wizard would be bound to want other members of the E1 Flash's rogues gallery around, given their strong combat profile when it comes to the speedster
Mr Freeze and Heat Wave might want Captain Cold onboard. Heat Wave and Captain Cold are old collaborators, and Mr Freeze and Captain Cold would probably bond immediately over temperature reduction tech capabilities.
Temporal transit: Abrakadabra might point out that Professor Zoom/the Reverse Flash has scientific expertise and time travel experience, as well as parity with the E1 Flash when it comes to superspeed abilities. Mordru might enlist the assistance of other LSH villains, who have the added advantage that they've also fought the E1 Superman as Superboy
Magic: Mordru might have some suggestions for other darkmages who might be useful within this context.

Some other points: There don't seem to be any Earth-Two villains involved here. Such as...
The Earth-Two Alexei Luthor
E2 Rose and the Thorn
E2 Harlequin
Ultra Humanite
the Injustice Society
Rival

Or, for that matter, Green Lantern or Wonder Woman rogues gallery members. Or rogues gallery members from the rest of the Earth-S
Squadron of Justice.

Sinestro
Dr Polaris
Star Sapphire

Cheetah
Dr Psycho
Silver Swan

[johnreiter902]

Jan 11, 2024 22:02:41 GMT redsycorax said:

Perhaps Sivana can provide pharmaceutical expertise to help manage the Joker that Luthor can't? Perhaps Sivana has stronger competencies in that area than Luthor? Is there any canonical evidence in Sivana's background that might be the case?

Sivana is an expert at mental manipulation, much more than Luthor in the silver age, from the stories I have read

[redsycorax]

I wonder if that took the form of formal training in psychotherapy or counselling and qualifications in that field? Of course, Thaddeus wouldn't use them responsibly or ethically and would probably have been struck off any professional disciplinary register of certified practitioners because of it, but...

[kaiserleomon]

My idealized version of the Legion of Doom would be the following:

1-Lex Luthor

2-Brainiac

3-Bizarro

4-Doomsday (version with intelligence)

5-Sinestro

6-Parasite

7-Cheetah (Doctor Barbara Minerva)

8-Deathstroke

9-Circe the Goddess of Magic

10-Gorilla Grodd

11-Killer Frost

12-Black Manta

13-Reverse-Flash

[kaiserleomon]

As for the League of Evil, I think my ideal formation would be:

1-Doctor Sivana

2-Black Adam

3-Mr. Atom

4-King Shark

5-Silver Swan

6-Bane

7-Mordru

8-Lashina

9-Lady Clayface (Sondra Fuller)

10-Poison Ivy

11-The Blue Bolt (is an alien supervillain from outer space. He has a history with the Flash, who had exiled him into space. Returning from exile in outer space, he began destroying landmarks around the world to get revenge on the Flash. He had the ability to transform into a bolt of energy, which enabled him to fly, travel through space, and absorb and release other kinds of energy. In one instance, he absorbed energy from a solar flare and attempted to melt the Eiffel Tower. The Flash and Kid Flash battled him across the world to Egypt, where they placed a large pipe in front of his path, angled upward. At the Blue Bolt’s high speed, he launched out into space. Doctor Sivana managed to rescue him from outer space and convince him to join the League of Evil, promising to help him get his much-desired revenge against the Flash. He exists in the League of Evil because he is a super speedster capable of providing the group of villains with super speed capable of matching that of the Flash and Reverse-Flash from the Legion of Doom) 

12-Madame Libertine (Katrina Krieger, this time possessing super powers of a psionic nature given to her by Doctor Sivana, just like the Strontian Xenith from Marvel Comics who has super powers comparable to those of Supergirl beyond to her previous psychic powers)

13-Lord Malvolio of the Green Flame among others.