Supervillains: What Are They Capable Of?

[redsycorax]

So, at the moment, I'm writing my take on what the JLA would face if there was a zombie apocalypse. Instead of taking the route of either a contaminated metahuman or the weaponised and modified Anti-Life Equation that Darkseid created in DCeased, I'm taking a different route. It tended to be one of the givens of the Golden Age Wonder Woman that her female enemies weren't as dark and corrupted inside as some of the male supervillains faced by Superman and Batman. Hmmm.  Of course, things have changed in contemporary Wonder Woman stories- the Cheetah is a ruthless killer and just as coldblooded as the Joker or Earth-Two's Alexei Luthor. So, what if Wonder Woman and the Golden Age Amazons were wrong? What if some of her rogues gallery were just as insane, fanatical and bloodthirsty as male supervillains?  And after I'd realised that, I also realised that there was only one major league supervillain from Diana's early days who could fit that bill. Baroness Paula Von Gunther. This version of her is a stone cold, true believer Nazi who will stop at nothing to achieve her goals.   Which does raise some questions- which other DC supervillains could be similarly without compassion or so far into madness or depravity that they would literally do anything to achieve their objectives or philosophy?  And how would superheroes react? Okay, this isn't exactly a new idea- witness the Injustice pretext, in which the Joker sets off a nuclear device, kills Lois Lane and Superman's unborn child both. However, I'm not solely talking about the Joker here, or the Kryptonian trio of Zod, Quex-Ul and Zaora who destroyed Superboy's pocket universe Earth after his death fighting the Time Trapper in a memorable John Byrne story.  Mind you, some of the other  Phantom Zone villains definitely have some potential of their own. Jax-Ur destroyed Wegthor for instance, but at no time has he displayed any remorse or self-abjection for the deaths of thousands of Kryptonian colonists there.  Two Face does seem to have some moral limits of his own, but which of Batman's rogue gallery might not?  In the case of the Flash, there's the Reverse-Flash, who definitely seems to have darkened over the years. although the rest of his Rogues Gallery seem to have strict limits on what they'd legitimately (if illegally do) to take down their enemy. And conversely, Sinestro also has his limits, given the contemporary storylines about the destruction of his homeworld, Korugar.  So there you are. Which DC supervillains are beyond redemption and how could one demonstrate that?

[johnreiter902]

In an Earth-2 contest, Alexie Luthor would definitely fit that description. So would the Ultra-Humanite.

[dans]

The various Sivannas have been known to laugh at death and destruction, heh heh heh

[DocQuantum]

It’s interesting that you started with Paula von Gunther and ended with a question about villains beyond redemption, because as evil as Paula was (using brainwashing, sexual exploitation, slavery, murder, etc), to the point that she was sentenced to death in the electric chair, she ultimately found redemption and peace through love. It’s really beautiful story that is all too rare these days.

[redsycorax]

Yes, it was, which raises some interesting questions about Lex Luthor too in some timelines. Clearly, he has considerable potential and frankly, Superboy making him bald and therefore evil is now the province of parody (Mister Might and his enemy Lex Object in my Freedom Brigade Earth-12/55 parody universe).

[jonclark]

Jan 31, 2021 2:48:10 GMT redsycorax said:

Yes, it was, which raises some interesting questions about Lex Luthor too in some timelines. Clearly, he has considerable potential and frankly, Superboy making him bald and therefore evil is now the province of parody (Mister Might and his enemy Lex Object in my Freedom Brigade Earth-12/55 parody universe).

The question with Lex is just why he "went evil".

Some stories showed him with a bit of an ego. If Lex was always thinking he was superior to the average person, was it inevitable that he'd have found himself at odds with society?  Was that lab accident just a convenient excuse for Lex to turn his back on being a law abiding citizen?

Or is that "Lex is mad at being bald" a simplistic reading on the event? Elliot S! Maggin tells us that Lex was basically a parent who lost his "child" when that artificial life he'd created was destroyed in that fire.  And I've wondered if Lex might have been hurt by finding someone (Superboy) who Lex was able to truly communicate with only for that person to betray him (at least from Luthor's version of the event). It could even be that Lex suffered some type of brain damage from those burning chemicals that changed his moral outlook.

And Lex has had decades of doing more and more evil acts. He's had multiple times he has faked a reformation. It isn't like Lex couldn't have turned over a new leaf.  He could have stayed on Lexor and left Superman and revenge behind. he could have taken up a new identity on Earth and lived a crime-free life.  At some point that lab accident stopped being the only reason he committed crimes.

[redsycorax]

Actually, jon, that thought had occurred to me too. I suspect that what actually happened when the chemical accident in Lex' lab occurred was neurological damage. Not enough to damage his intellect, but distort his personality and produce the obsession with Superboy and Superman for the next few decades. So it wasn't baldness at all that turned Lex bad, it was chemical or radiation damage to his brain, specifically the areas that regulate moral compass and cognitive perception. It wouldn't have turned him into a complete psychopath, because Lex has been shown to have some moral compass and potential for redemption. At times, he's even relinquished his anti-Superman vendetta and even settled down on Lexor with Ardora and their son for a while in Earth-One's universe. When it came to Earth-Two, though, Alexei was a psychopath and had no inhibitions when it came to destroying Earths One and Two, much to the horror of Earth-One's Lex. I was interested in the point made about Paula's reformation made above, so I tracked down the story in which the existence of her daughter Gerta as a Nazi hostage was disclosed and Wonder Woman then proceeded to rescue her. Things take a different turn in my zombie apocalypse story set on Earth-2124, with consequences for Paula and Diana both.

[johnreiter902]

Jan 31, 2021 23:38:23 GMT jonclark said:

Jan 31, 2021 2:48:10 GMT redsycorax said:

Yes, it was, which raises some interesting questions about Lex Luthor too in some timelines. Clearly, he has considerable potential and frankly, Superboy making him bald and therefore evil is now the province of parody (Mister Might and his enemy Lex Object in my Freedom Brigade Earth-12/55 parody universe).

The question with Lex is just why he "went evil".

Some stories showed him with a bit of an ego. If Lex was always thinking he was superior to the average person, was it inevitable that he'd have found himself at odds with society?  Was that lab accident just a convenient excuse for Lex to turn his back on being a law abiding citizen?

Or is that "Lex is mad at being bald" a simplistic reading on the event? Elliot S! Maggin tells us that Lex was basically a parent who lost his "child" when that artificial life he'd created was destroyed in that fire.  And I've wondered if Lex might have been hurt by finding someone (Superboy) who Lex was able to truly communicate with only for that person to betray him (at least from Luthor's version of the event). It could even be that Lex suffered some type of brain damage from those burning chemicals that changed his moral outlook.

And Lex has had decades of doing more and more evil acts. He's had multiple times he has faked a reformation. It isn't like Lex couldn't have turned over a new leaf.  He could have stayed on Lexor and left Superman and revenge behind. he could have taken up a new identity on Earth and lived a crime-free life.  At some point that lab accident stopped being the only reason he committed crimes.

My impression was that Lex, as a result of the shock of loosing his creation, his lab, and his hair at the same time, essentially seeing his dreams and his life fall apart, lashed out in grief at the nearest person he could blame for it (Superboy). In time, they might have healed the rift, and Lex might have been able to put his grudge behind him (or maybe not, I've known many people to nurse irrational grudges for a long time), but them several of Lex's inventions malfunctioned, and Superboy saved the day. Lex was egotistical to begin with, and it would have been hard enough to admit his failings on a good day. This was far from a good day, he was already predisposed to hate and distrust Superboy, he conceived the paranoid obsession that Superboy was jealous of him because he knew Lex was better, and is was all Superboy's fault that the town was turning against Lex. It's possible that he had nursed some issues with paranoia before the accident. Egotistical geniuses are often paranoid (such as Tesla). The trauma he experienced in the lab fire, followed by the coincidence of his inventions causing disasters that only Superboy could solve drove it over the edge.

In fact, it probably wasn't a coincidence. Lex's trauma and desperate need to rebuild and "prove himself" after the loss of his greatest creation probably made him sloppy.

[starskyhutch76]

In the stories I've done with Lex Luthor, I've written him as the ultimate narcissist. His true motivation is that he believes Superman has usurped his place as the greatest man on Earth. In one of my stories, a hair appeared on his head and he plucked it out. He's actually come to prefer his bald look. A guy like Lex Luthor could probably cure his baldness at any time.

[DocQuantum]

Yeah I think that’s the best take on Luthor.